Beach council rules Buddhists cannot hold services in home

Although I don't know all of the specifics, I would say there's a serious problem with any Buddhist practitioner who doesn't know the difference between "equal rights" and "special rights".

From my understanding, these monks disregarded the zoning laws when they were pretending to be a home study group and now they're trying to play the role of victim, claiming discrimination where no discrimination exists?

Their behavior is contrary to the Dharma and it's time for them to grow up.

Billy: No one is calling the Underhills racists or xenophobics because they oppose the Buddhist. Get it straight and stop twisting what was really said.
Because there is an underlying prevailing aura of "fear of outsiders" in this area specifically DOES NOT label or single out (or slander as you profess) the people who oppose the Buddhist as racists or xenophobics. In conjunction with zoning issues there are issues of a failure to see that in this case, "what is not understood is feared."
You need to understand the First Amendment and stop acting like a victim.

Other than truth, to push what amounts to bias. Few are willing to admit to certain biases & fears, in these times. All this reminds me of the "State's Rights" code word arguments during the scariest days of the civil rights movement. All of us need to look inside, deep inside, to see, just why difference is something we so fear.

August 28, 2008
The Monks in Virginia Beach
By Artiest (a down to earth friend)

These Buddhist Monks belong to the Mahayana (a modern sect)
Traditionally, all Buddhist monks had to live in their temples or monasteries since 500 years before Christ. WHY? Monks must be readily accessible for spiritual guidance and help to all followers when the need arises. In their South Vietnamese society the temple is open 24 – 7. People can come anytime they need service.
Once their vows are taken, all Buddhist monks are required to denounce all physical attachment to family, to outside jobs and to other worldly needs, thus they enter a simple life of spiritual attendance and service to the public. They are highly sought after for their skills in teaching meditation as they help many to overcome stress.

So the WAVE church can build a church in Pungo off a two lane road on a curve, but monks can not practice in an established home where they also live? They can rent the home across from me. Their noise can't be any louder than the dozens of jets I've heard today or Lynnhaven construction project nearby.

Appearances marym63204; Myra may be Jewish but she would find anyone of foreign means unsightly or not within the right to practice outside of the realm of an Americana type look. If they were Hasidic Jews with women covering and the men in long beards this would not work for the sales brochure type picture the entire council looks at to raise revenue. This has been proven time and again. The only bashing I have seen here is the lack of understanding and unprincipled nature of VB Gov to the constitution of the US.
Why, presently they are in a fight over that very thing in Federal court

1) The majority of the neighbors are concerned w/ future building plans after the zoning change. THe religion is a non-issue.

2) The monks have in FACT attempted to place a larger building on the property in the past.

3) This is a tax and zoning issue. No one cares if the worship. The future plans for the location are the issue.

It should be noted that Seaboard Rd. Which another poster mentioned is no where near West Neck, nor is it comparable.

As a previous poster mentioned, it is against the Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act (RLUIPA) for a government to tell people they cannot have religous services on their property. There are several caveats to it, but the city's ruling is a clear violation of the act. While this section of the act still has not been challenged in the Supreme Court (due to its interference with local zoning laws), it looks like VA Beach needs to find themselves an attorney. I think the monks have a good case to challenge the city's ruling in court.

Another Pogo moment.

Isn't The Wave Church building a facility in this area?

From their website info:
"We are currently working on plans to build our South Beach Campus on Seaboard Road. This first phase will enable us to begin meeting on our property in a new 500 seat auditorium with great facilities for our children and youth. This first phase will only be the beginning of a much larger complex centered around our Wave Convention Center II."

Will they be subject to the same ruling of 'a one year trial'? Maybe they could offer 'sanctuary' to the monks!

My point isn't about religious bias. I just do not believe it was "only a zoning issue." Frankly if you can give the Chatholic Church across the street from my home (all in a R7.5 zoned residential area)a CUP then why can't the monks have one in the Pungo residential community? They are alot farther out in the county than my home is. I have every issue the Pungo folks compained about except I don't have Mrs. Henley living in my community. However I and all the other residents on my street have got over 3,000 cars every weekend and hundreds more every weekday night. On Sunday, they make so much noise(loud music and voices) you can even hear them inside my home! Atleast the monks live on a huge lot out in the country... So what happens to be different about the Monks case?

Yesterday, I told one of the city council members that I didn't know how they were going to get out of this mess and wished him luck. Now I ha

I think the city should work with the monks, too, but . . . two things:

1) Mayor Oberndorf is Jewish, not Christian, so the anti-Christian bias of people upset with the city council is a bit weird. Do we know for sure the religions of the others on the council or are we just assuming that everyone who opposes the Buddhists is Christian???

2) What about in the future when it is a radical Muslim madrassah that someone is trying to build on a residential lot in Pungo? If we make this about freedom of religion, will we have to do it then, too? Cheers, MGM

Well there you have anothr fine example of NIMBY at it's finest. So if I built a Baptist church on the same property, would the fear of it becoming another CBN still exist? This is more about a church worshipping their beliefs that the surrounding area doesn't understand the fundamentals of. I seriously doubt that this church has a single negative effect on Pungo, the farms, or the property values. I am so glad I moved away from the beach so I dont have to be forced to live by someone else's code simply because they pay taxes and they think it gives them the right to. The last I checked, they believe in helping your fellow man....something a few churches in Pungo dont do very well. The city of Va. Beach needs to worry more about their public transportation system than these monks. But then again, public transportation might bring families into the city who cannot afford a shiny new car and run down pro

What kind of idiot would have advised the council to rule in this way? I'm not a lawyer and have never passed the Bar, but I'm intelligent enough to look around me and know that this is poor decision making. Now, the ruling will be overturned and the City of Virginia Beach will pick up the tab for the court costs as well. West Neck folks - get over yourselves. Freedom of religion is part and parcel of this country.

See them Super bowls and such bring in revenue for the city. Buddhists don't sell anything but bliss man. The City has not figured out how to charge for bliss, so bliss is un-American. Believe me, when they do that like you can for a glowing crosses or he Face of Pat Robertson; mark my word, that council will turn around and give those Monks their props. Ommmmmanoman; Pass that tasty bliss; it’s lite and only 108 calories per serving. That’s 11% food and admissions tax back to the city for more of...
By the way; “53 schools in S. Hampton Roads fail to meet federal standards.” Do something about that and leave the monks alone

it's that enforcement is sometimes sporadic at best, their purpose & meaning suspect, & their application, too often biased toward an elite few. This particular ordinance is a violation of freedom of religion. Yet, with the right-wing judges now seated at our state & federal courts, it probably doesn't matter to have Constitutional law on the side of the monks. Too many of these judges have treated the Constitution with total disregard, over the last 7+ years. Warrantless wiretaps, holding of American born citizens as enemy combatants & not allowing them access to lawyers or family members, torturing of prisoners of war, etc. This is what has become of our judicial system. What a shame. I bet some feel all of the above, is just fine.

Let me see if I have the facts right? Last year City council granted a temporary permit for the monks to hold service there. I don't know of all the particulars of this permit but I recall it to be 1 year and re-assessed. I do recall many compliments paid to city council for not being close minded and very tolerant to others faith. A year later council re-assessed and decides to close them down. Now the question is, did council decide to do this because neighbors just don't like the monks or has traffic significantly increased along with membership doubling, tripling etc. That's the real question and based on the answer, the decision should be made! Let council do there job or vote them out if you don't like them!

Now if an exception is made, then the law suits will come especially when a more aggressive or radical belief group applies to open their house of worship and is denied! I'm not a Buddhist but

I'm disgusted by this and I can see by the comments already posted that I am not alone. I am not a Buddist, nor do I need to be to understand that this is a travesty.

Council: Pathetic. Stand for US. Vote for US. WE don't approve of this! WE don't approve of YOU. Give them back their rights, and their peaceful worship.

Neighbors: You should be ashamed of yourselves. I certainly am ashamed of you.

I don't understand why 35 cars is an issue. I've got 3,000 every weekend driving by my home in a zoned residential area of the city. Frankly I do not believe City Council made the right choice on this issue, When the folks next door can stop you from praying in your own home, we have a problem. What's next no Superbowl parties?

I don't understand why people are complaining about the traffic in the neighborhood. Every Sunday I am stopped on Kempsville road so the police can direct the traffic out of the local churches where people worship cause there are so many cars. Also add Wednesday night to that. What is everyone in that neighborhood so scared of just live and let live and quit complaining. They are not a rowdy group of people and who cares what they do. There not any broken down cars parked on the grass and a chained up dog on the porch or anything like that. Unfortunately this will cost the tax payers lots of money in legal fees just so the city can lose. Great job city council now do something more productive with our money like fixing potholes or something.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_Land_Use_and_Institutionalized_Persons_Act

Check it out - the upshot of the law, passed in 2000, is that zoning laws cannot be used to encroach upon religious expression.

This is what happens when lower life forms face more spiritually evolved life forms. FEAR. In a city where the Mayor has broken every law regarding zoning and flaunted her ability to do so in the Federal Government's face (regarding the jets from Oceana), you will NEVER make me believe this is a zoning issue. This is an out and out HATE CRIME and the people on the city council who voted against the monks (and those who are complaining in the neighborhood) need to be charged accordingly in a court of law for their hate crimes. The Virginia Beach government is no better than the oppressive government of China.

That there are some here that blame Christians for this issue? I was raised in a Christian home. Although I'm not a bible thumper I take offense at what is being said here since I feel it's a slap against some members of my family that in no means act in the manner some have described here.

zoning issues should be ruled illegal. Governments should not have a right to tell people what they can do on their land. Homeowner associations are also guilty and should be told where to stick their noses.

What started out as a measure to tell lazy people to cut their grass and maintain the property has really gotten out of hand.

I don't know why I post here. Most of you will gripe here in the paper but will not get off your butts and be vocal with your local officials when you feel there is an injustice. Thus, the cycle continues...

just can't handle "different" is all this is; especially our "established" residents. Increased traffic was a claim...uh, its everywhere folks.

When two or more gather in my name, I am there. That constitutes a church for many folks. This country is partially founded on religious freedom. A gathering of peaceful individuals on their property to hold a church service cannot be under the policing authority of the local government.

Does that mean every time a group gets togather for a bible study, they first must declare they are a church and ask permission of the VA BCH exalted ones? When the guys get togather for poker night, do they have to get a permit to gamble from the supreme beings of the VA BCH council?

This is ludicrious. VA BCH, u might want to worry about keeping Oceana viable and keeping the revenue in the region vice worrying about a group of monks holding service. Are they encroaching onto their neighbors? Pat Robertson growth, come on, lets get realistic with an arguement.

Brian and txtuallyactiv are correct. Council missed again. This is a residence where people visit/ teach. It is not a temple. Have you seen or been in a Buddhist temple? I have. With this rulling, I would agree that all of us who have Sunday School Class meetings, covered dish, Bible study in our homes will be cited for the exact same "reasons". Mr. Fine has a great case and will win and this decision will be overturned. Hopefully, one day soon, I can move from VB.

Are zoning laws really that mystifying or is it just because it has the irrelevant aspect of it being a religious group that makes people stupid?

indicate a lack in realizing what this decision will cause, if upheld by courts. 1 poster wrote houses of worship don't belong in residential areas. Either he is so young, that all he's ever known as "neighborhoods", is suburban sprawl, or he is completely clueless to reality. Most older neighborhoods in Tidewater have houses of worship, within their borders. This is true in the original neighborhoods of Princess Anne County & the town of Va. Beach,(which were combined to create Va. Beach as a city, preventing Norfolk, with it's integrated schools, from annexing the area). 1 poster's idea about renting public school space; the complications arising would open a can of worms concerning public funds & religious entities. A basic right, is being denied.

"The religious institution doesn't fit into their neighborhood of farms and homes, said Louis Cullipher, a neighbor."

What gives you the right to say what does and doesn't fit in "your" neighborhood? If a simple gathering of extremely quiet people is enough to cause these people to complain, what would they say does fit in "their” neighborhood? The truth is YOU don't fit in the neighborhood.

“Where is it going to end?" Franken asked. "What will happen to this neighborhood when this place outgrows itself?"

That statement is asinine, while I agree that I wouldn't want Pat Robertson in my neighborhood either, these people have no right to say who or what moves into "their" neighborhood. If they did, whoever was here before them wouldn't have let them move in either.
Just another case of intolerance by narrow minded busybodies that given the chance would complain stand up and try to force thei

I am at a lost, I know for fact that there are other faiths which hold services at the homes of members and leaders on Sundays and throughout the week, bible study on Wednesdays and Choir rehearsals also. Why is i such a big deal for the Monks to practice their Religion in their homes. I grew up in the Back Bay/Pungo area and do not see a problem a all. There are no problems with the flow of traffic (I sill have family down there that I visit at least 4 times a week). There is no loud music or noises that would disturb the neighbors.

This appears to be listed as a zoning issue, but what about the business which is a couple of doors down and they have automobiles and boats out at the road to be sold, wouldn't that be more of an issue that a quiet gathering.

Why is it that a business can be run out of a home in residential areas, with the customers coming and going, the delivery vehicles coming and going and all other thi