NORFOLK
Light-rail construction will move into the downtown core after the first of the year, creating challenges to motorists, businesses and visitors for the next year and half.
The $232.1 million transit system is the largest public works project in the city's history and the state's first light-rail line.
The route cuts across busy thoroughfares including St. Paul's Boulevard and Granby and Boush streets. It parallels MacArthur Center mall and several popular entertainment and dining spots along Monticello Avenue and Charlotte Street.
While the work is expected to cause some headaches, city, transit and business leaders are working to minimize the inconveniences and send out the message: Downtown remains open for business.
"This is a big, big project," said James Toscano, a Hampton Roads Transit vice president. "We don't want to mislead people and act like this is not going to be a strain."
"But we need to keep our eye on the prize: Light rail will bring significant benefits to downtown, the city and Hampton Roads at large," he added.
Cathy Coleman, president of the Downtown Norfolk Council, said, "It's impossible to get there without going through some interruption."
Instead of being built linearly, construction will occur at multiple locations throughout downtown simultaneously.
It begins with utility relocation. The first will be power lines along Charlotte Street, which will close one lane beginning this week.
Once utilities are moved, track construction begins.
The city's goal is to keep traffic flowing on all major roads. Lane closures will be common, but it will be unusual to shut down a main road in its entirety, officials said.
Paul Filion, light-rail project manager for the city, said on-street parking will be eliminated on several roadways, including Monticello, in order to keep streets open.
"The goal is not to close anything," said Pamela Marino, city public works spokeswoman. "If we have to close streets for short periods of time, we will have a massive communications plan."
Coleman added that it's unfortunate that the construction comes during an economic downturn. "This is somewhat of a perfect storm, which will not make it easy for independents, or any business," she said.
Coleman said she's learned from other cities that have built light rail that "good businesses tend to survive if they're willing to put the extra effort in being creative and marketing correctly."
Some businesses downtown are already feeling the pinch with parking and lane closures from other construction work at the Wachovia Center office tower, the Belmont at Freemason apartments and the Residence Inn by Marriott.
"A lot of business owners put our livelihoods into downtown and it's a scary proposition for us now," said Baxter Simmons Jr., of Baxter's sports bar on Granby Street.
Baxter's has the Wachovia Center construction behind it, the stalled Granby Tower construction in front of it, and light rail about to start up beside it. He's already running weekday dinner and drink specials to entice patrons.
"When light rail comes down Charlotte Street, it will cut me off from the rest of downtown Norfolk," Simmons said.
"I worry people won't come downtown and will wait until construction is done," he said.
Across the street at 456 Fish, Sture Sigfred Jr. is counting on the support of his regular diners during construction.
"There will be a little bit of pain between now and then, sometimes a little more than a little bit," Sigfred said. "It's going to be worth it many times over. We're going to have a ringside seat to light rail."
Entertainment venues have similar concerns.
"I'd be lying if I said we're not really worried about it," said Keith Stava, managing director of the Virginia Stage Company. "It there's a perceived high level of inconvenience, it could be an economic hardship for us."
Stava said he's programming shows with the broadest base appeal to help get through the construction period.
The business owners said they're pleased with the work the city, HRT and the downtown council are undertaking to find ways to help them.
The city is developing a business assistance plan that would provide financial help, either grants or loans, to businesses that suffer during construction, assistant city manager Stanley A. Stein said.
The city and HRT plan to maintain access to all downtown businesses and parking garages during construction. There will be directional signs throughout downtown and pedestrian walkways through construction sites.
The DNC, a membership organization that promotes downtown, has launched an interactive map on its Web site detailing lane and road closures. It's also working with the contractors, the city and HRT to develop coupons and after-work parties at businesses hit hardest by the construction.
"We have a responsibility to encourage people to use downtown businesses even if they're somewhat challenging to get to," Coleman said.
Debbie Messina, (757) 446-2588, debbie.messina@pilotonline.com
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Light Rail Ridership
aalto said: What makes anyone think that a train will be any better?
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Because in city after city that has installed a light rail line that paralleled a former bus route, light rail ridership always exceeded bus ridership considerably.
Consider Charlotte, NC where they installed their first light rail system a little more than a year ago. In downtown Charlotte they have a circulator bus route known as the Gold Rush. Much of the bus route parallels the new light rail system.
During the first full year of light rail operation, ridership on the Gold Rush bus dropped by 1.2%; this during a year when ridership is up on all forms of mass transit. And get this; the bus is free to ride. People gave up the free bus for the paid light rail!
Full Lots?
Having ridden the MAX system since start, I can say the Silverleaf lot in VB is not full. Neither are the shuttle busses. Nice new 40 passenger bus, but normally there are at most a dozen passengers riding one. This is the second attempt to get express service from VB to norfolk, and again appears to be failing. What makes anyone think that a train will be any better? The problem with LRT will be when it does fail, there is no way to reuse the asset. At least with the MAX bus, it can be repainted and put on the street as a regular bus. Wonder if HRT is willing to share MAX ridership numbers?
$230 million would have gone a long way toward expanding the HRT bus reach instead of building a shuttle train service around downtown norfolk.
Still the same thing
A lot of complaints but no viable answers to our traffic problems in the area. I've lived in places with mass transit and I know how well it can work and how enjoyable it is to be able to sit back and read or even take a nap while on the way to work. The trick is to offer an option other than people driving vehicles into downtown areas or other places that have a great number of people going to them. If you think Park n Ride for an LRT system won't work, just check out the parking lots for them right now and see how full they are.
Do I expect these services to pay for themselves? No, but then I don't expect the police department, the fire department, our roads, our street lighting systems to pay for themselves either. We HAVE to get serious about our traffic and pollution problems in this area and not just complain about them. They are only going to get worse without solutions.
That's rich
Reid Greenmun "help guide our region's transportation choices"? Yeah, the VBTA anti-Transportation Chairman has opposed every proposal to build new roads, while he's called for abolishing HRT. No wonder policy makers don't listen to him!
The truth of the matter is that it would be cost-prohibtive to bulldoze through subdivisions to build new arterial roads. Hampton Roads is going to have to build a quality mass transit system or slowly be choked to death.
As for those complaining about LRT construction disruptions, road construction causes problems, too. You don't hear these same whiners when a road is being built.
Light Rail Ridership
squirrelly said: Consider me a realist, not a naysayer, who has done extensive research and has found that most light rail systems within the United States have failed to show any benefit in alleviating traffic, have huge cost overruns, high maintenance costs and low ridership
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Well then with respect, you need to do more research. San Diego’s light rail system averages between 100,000 to 110,000 riders per day. Portland’s MAX averages 107,000 riders per day.
Salt Lake City averages around 20,000 per day, and that was over its first 7 years of operation and before a few major expansions. And Salt Lake City has a population of 178,858 as compared to Norfolk’s 229,112. By the way, Salt Lake City has 3 light rail lines and 1 commuter line.
Dr. Tabor,
It is true that the Tide in its current state will probably never break even when you look at its budget alone. Light Rail saves money because it reduces the need for further road expansions. Also, you could give the projected number of riders compact cars for less. If you go that route, however, you will only increase your road use which translates to more maintenance and construction money needed. Same as with Taxis. Not to mention that Taxi demand is lower in HR than Transit demand. Also, the statistic that mass transit uses more energy than cars is only true because it includes the energy used on feeder buses, maintenance operations, and construction. Actually according to the same report that the above concept came from, Compact cars only save 20 BTUs over Light Rail per passenger mile and produces .54 pounds of CO2 as opposed to the .36 pounds produced by LRT. In fact, the average automobile consumes 220 BTUs more than LRT per Passenger Mile. Most people around HR drive what the government classifies as Light Trucks, which consume 960 BTUs more than LRT. This system will be very functional if the surrounding cities begin to cooperate with Norfolk. I would much rather drive 10
Slander from the misinformed (Ragsdale)
Mr. Ragsdale, I am sorry that you really do not understand my efforts to help guide our region's transportation choices to better options and solutions. I appreciate that your worldview makes massive taxpayer subsidies appear to be so attractive to you, but for those of us that are stuck picking up the tab for your transportation wants, we fight for good solutions, not wasteful boongoggles like this "Tide" which is little more than an excuse for more Transit Oriented Development (TOD) and increasing HRT's quest to grow beyond their already bloated 800+ employee workforce. If you are looking to fault someone for why our transportation has not been maintained, look to the General Assembly and the Hampton Roads Partnership/Port Authority lobby that have hijacked our MPO regional plans to push their nice-to-have "wants" while our real transportation needs are left unaddressed.
And FWIW..
And for what it's worth, the fancy online maps that the DNC puts out seems to only include businesses that they are friends with. The map with the businesses omits quite a few small businesses downtown.
taxicabs? get real please
Not a huge defender of the LRT that will be rolling through DT Norfolk, but the taxicab express? Huh? Did I miss something, like the light rail stop called Reality Check? And yes I am sure that the Tide will in no way pay for itself, kind of like all the miles and miles and miles of free roads that we have here in VA that I pay taxes for but will never use. Like I-81 for example. Or any other road west of Richmond. Oh well. In any case, Norfolk's lame "live" map doesn't seem to load on my home, laptop, or work computer so that is useless. Norfolk city council seems bent on mismanaging the Tide and its potential like most other things in Norfolk. I see the LRT as a waste but it is on the way and the $$ has been spent so I will at least get on with my life and maybe ride it if all the DT businesses aren't gone by the time it's up and running.
I still support it.
I still support it.
Fact!
A question was recently asked at a small downtown business which has seen a 25% decrease in business. Owner: "long time no see, I hope it has nothing to do with our product or service"? Customer: "Not at all we actually miss coming but cannot risk being late back to work due to all the construction traffic"
This is a subject worth investigating, the destruction of small business's and the employee's and families affected.
Wait I just remembered, only big business counts in Norfolk not the effects their projects have on the common man.
Mr. Ragsdale, other than insults, ...
do you have any contrary information to offer? Will the TIDE repay the cost of building it to the taxpayers? Will it break even on operating expenses? Would it not require a fare at least 8 times the planned fare to operate at break even and repay the capital cost in its useful life without a taxpayer subsidy?
Would it not,in fact, be cheaper to allow more Taxicabs? Is it not true the cost will be higher than giving the regular riders compact cars?
Will it not use more energy per passenger mile than those compact cars?
Do you dispute any of the facts I reported, or do you just not like them?
Markk and Rags: you are kidding me right
So if I told you that I could build a flying carpet for a billion dollars that would fix traffic problems, would you buy that too? LRT is a misnomer. It is not light, actually heavier than any other means of mass transit, but then again, LRT is not mass transit either. The MAXIMUM amount of people per train will be 220, which is not even close to mass transit. With that amount of people, you would need 10 trains per hour to consider it even close to mass transit. The cost is outrageous, and if you look at the cities who have already established LRT, you will see that ridership numbers are so low and that they have created financial burdens. Who will pay for this? You also have to consider that the LRT will be running in an area that few residents live, so to get to the parking garage to ride this waste, you will still need a car. HRT has no, and I mean no plans of ever adding north/south lines, but will run additional bus services. Sounds even more expensive, and you guys are jumping on this bandwagon. I wish those, like yourselves who want this would be willing to flip the bill, but it will fall on the heads of all of us in the long run. Just great.
markk
A big thank-you. Your right: construction always brings detours. It's called follow directions and you'll still get you you're going.
Downtown is not shutting down people. You will still be able to get to all homes & businesses and all parking garages will remain open.
Then again, why do I even try? It's the fire-spewing negative posters who spin everything negative making it bad for the rest of us.
TLP
There goes the Doctor with his strange Kool-Aid. Why do you even bother? Because of people like you & Reid, we have to sit in congestion every day and Richmond sits on their hands and does nothing to help pay for urgently needed improvements
Any surprises here?
This is a non-news issue if there ever was one. Who didn't think there wouldn't be construction going on to build the system? Who didn't think or understand there would be traffic interruptions and businesses affected by this?
With progress comes pain. Not doing anything, not building some sort of mass transit system in this day and age only continues age old traffic problems and does nothing to cure them. Gas prices WILL rise again and probably go beyond $4 a gallon. Air pollution problems with all the vehicles going in and out of downtown will only get worse. Mass transit systems such as LRT are the answer. I don't see any of the complainers here proposing any viable solutions to the growing traffic problems we are faced with.
Squirrelly has it 100% correct.
Squirrelly has it 100% correct. This is a total waste of money and will be a flop. Of all the things Norfolk could come up with to improve their City this is it? The new HRT buses at the VB oceanfront were a flop just like this will be. HRT will want millions more to build it and millions more to run it because it will not pay for itself. Then the blame game will start.
During Construction Use Harbor Park
lots, other lots, to park the cars. Make the NET available to transport diners to the various downtown restaurants and the arts.
THE TIDE
The greatest operational attribute of Light Rail is realized when private-right-of-way is utilized; less so when trains navigate city streets. Street running of TIDE LRV's north of downtown Norfolk is akin to streetcar service which ended during the 1940's. Eastbound, non-street running is prevalent, although terminating the service at Newtown Road lessens the potential for TIDE to be a meaningful player in the overall public transportation scenario. Regarding disruption to "normal" downtown activity while TIDE is under construction, I would suggest the writer rely less on HRT PR and do some in-depth research of how similar building of LRT projects affected businesses and the like [ex: Baltimore, Charlotte]in other cities. Pro or con, would be more balanced and meaningful.
I didn't think parking downtown could get worse...
but I guess it can get worse. I'm sorry to say it, but I'm just going to avoid the area completely until the light rail construction is done and hope that my favorite restaurant is still in business when I go back down there.
grounded!!!!
Elevate the thing & keep it off the city streets, like in DC. Any means of public trans. that eats up one traffic lane in each direction is only going to slow the traffic even more. I highly suspect that was the point to entice (or force) others to use the darn thing. This is antiquated technology. The project is going to deter many persons from visiting Norfolk due to terrible traffic problems, problems persons from outside of Norfolk will not tolerate. They'll try to force everyone onto the Tide w/poor traffic commutes but many will just not come. Come to think of it, I'll be one not to visit. I'll come to the McArther Mall to buy my books for school @ Barnes & Noble, but I won't be staying long. Hopefully just long enough to beat the Tide back to P-Town. I hope P-Town is listening, because I'll never ride the darn thing in P-Town either. And I'm not hating, just stating I'm never going to ride the thing. I bet there's more people like me than ones whom wish for this. Non-riders watch out, the light you see @ the end of the tunnel is a train.
Light rail is stealing, and harms the environment
The fares charged riders will only cover about 20% of the ongoing operating costs and will pay off none of the capital costs incurred to build it and obtain rights of way. The remainder will come from taxpayers who will likely never use the LRT, mostly hidden in their cost of living as taxes on businesses they patronize and as 15% of their fuel taxes.
It would be cheaper to simply give the users of LRT compact cars. Even taxis would be cheaper, if the city would allow enough of them to operate to saturate demand instead of artificially limiting them.
On top of that, LRT uses more energy per passenger mile than compact cars, so it isn't even green. Empty trains use a lot of energy per passenger, and even at peak times, they are only full in one direction.
LRT is a tool to steer development, but has no value as transportation.
misimons, no I'm not narrow
misimons, no I'm not narrow minded, I'm just realistic. I like trains a lot. I've even looked into the possibility of buying a personal locomotive (It has been done, but getting access to tracks seems to be difficult). But in the end I know that HRT doesn't run a tight ship based upon employee / ex-employee comments on here. I know that the system will impede traffic being grade level. I know that Hampton Roads has quite a bit of sprawl. I work downtown, and know a good number of people that do as well. Very few of them would ever be serviced by the light rail. Yes low income people might benefit, and I think that would be good but I can't get over the fact it's an outdated solution. I complain but I have tried to do good things, but normally meet resistance because HR is run by old people that don't get it.
Traffic delays
DUH!!
Why Downtown Norfolk
Will someone please explain to me why light rail is starting in downtown Norfolk and not Chesapeake through Va. Beach on to the naval base loop?
What a waste of money. I'm glad I don't pay taxes in Norfolk.
"Norfolk officials predict traffic woes..."
Think it's bad during construction, wait till it's done and they have to close the gates on major thoroughfares to have this "light rail" pass through.
A raised maglev would've been more viable (albeit still stupid for such a small run) than using 170 year old technology. This "light rail" is nothing more than a glorified train that will benefit a small part of the population.
Just wait until it's up and operating
You'll see more than traffic problems. You'll see train/vehicle and train/pedestrian "collisions" which you get everywhere a street-level train begins service. Be careful out there!
Mom and Pops.
Again as they already are the small business owners in the downtown area of the city will suffer. It is bad enough that already many are suffering from the economy and the present construction hindering the flow of traffic and business so now the city will add another blow. How many small business's will go under due to the non caring dreamers on city council who think they are helping?
Suspend it
With the failing economy and the loss of tax dollars, all funding for this tide of failure should be redirected toward items that are truly a function of government. Schools, police, fire, rescue, and repairing the crumbling infrastructure should come first. Only then should $230 million be spent on a tourist shuttle through norfolk.
VB citizens stated no to additional waste of tax dollars toward the mis-managed HRT. Now all can tell why. Before any further state and federal tax funds are committed, norfolk and HRT must be forced to make public the abuse and waste of tax funds this train has caused. How much over budget is the system? When will it be completed? Who authorized the lies to the federal government in order to low-ball the cost for approval? It's time for the truth.
I am so glad we have an alternative choice
for evening dining and shopping pleasure. I just enjoy townecenter, va. bch to the hilt. free parking, great lighting in and around, various choices of dining fare and retail and entertainment, and a large multi plex, it's everything Granby Street should have been. I live in Norfolk, I've tolerated Norfolk's asnine decisions for 32 years, i've seen plenty of businesses close because of city decisions that really impeded their ability to succeed,one,the 'dumb waiter' restaurant comes to mind, then I remember when the city closed granby st. and tried to market it as a walking mall, many businesses perished with that one, there were no pedestrians, and there are numerous others. Lite Rail is doomed and any business along granby st. is doomed because the parking is terrible , I hestitate to park any where around granby street at night for any event or restaurant, I'm not a mall rat, i don't enjoy malls, and i don't enjoy paying to park to 'spend my money, towne center resolves that and yes, it's past time i moved from Norfolk to save what samnity i still have.